Better with Age

What makes you feel beautiful?

DIANNE: Oh, I don’t always feel beautiful. However, I feel more beautiful now and have more confidence in my looks than I did in grade school, high school, or college, when I was young, when I was starting out. I never felt like a pretty person. [My confidence grew] because I started to do this work in my 80s. I started to do background work just sort of by accident, right after COVID. I found that I could dress differently. I kind of took some tips from the wardrobe people. I was a very conservative dresser, and I didn’t wear a lot of makeup. I wore makeup when I was younger, and then I stopped wearing it, and I actually hardly ever wear makeup now. I did a photo shoot very early on, where they put me on the cover, and I saw that I looked so good. When I do photos, I feel like I really look good, and so I have more confidence in the way I look. I wear my clothes differently. I think of myself as a more attractive person than I felt myself when I was young. And so, I went back and actually looked at pictures of myself in college and in high school. And I thought, “Oh, I really was a pretty girl.” Which I never thought of myself as. Maybe because I had very pretty friends. Well, I thought my friends were more beautiful than I was.

DEBRA: Something that has happened to me recently, more than once, is getting an unsolicited compliment. Somebody, whether it’s a man or a woman, where they’re like, “You look really good,” something like that where it’s certainly not that I asked for it, but they just came out with it. I actually heard from 3 different women in my gym class who were so excited that I let my hair go gray, and they were congratulating me on it. It was a dare. It was a challenge from L’Oreal that I let my grays grow out. And I’ve just gotten so many interesting reactions to it that I seriously wasn’t looking for, and they said, “Wow, I give you so much credit for doing this.”

JANE: I found it to be the opposite of what one would expect, whereas people are looking for classical, golden proportion types of elements. I look at everyone and say, “Oh, beautiful hair,” or “Wow, beautiful eyes.” First glance, if my skin’s looking good, that’s an actual, you know, beauty thing or perhaps if what I’m wearing makes me feel confident. Confidence, you know? I just don’t go in public in something I’d wear strictly at home, like if you’re painting or you’re cleaning in a sloppy T-shirt. It’s not that I’m afraid of being judged; it’s that I want to be the best Jane. And when I bring that to the world, I feel better about myself, I’m kinder and I’m just better all around. You see, an outfit, to me, is not just something to cover up with; it’s like creating art. So, the joy of putting colors and textures together, even if I’m going to the supermarket.

How do you define beauty?
DIANNE: To me, it’s not only looks; I think it’s a sort of confidence in oneself. Confidence in the way you feel, your intellectual qualities, and just being comfortable in your own skin makes you feel more attractive to anyone, whether your features are perfect or not. It makes you a beautiful person in and out.

DEBRA: If I look in the mirror, I need to like what I see. If I’m putting on makeup, whatever I’m doing, it has to look the way I feel I look. If I get compliments about it, then I guess I’ve accomplished what I set out to do. It’s hard for me to really know because I know how I look, and I’ve always looked this way to myself. I put on my makeup, and I feel good.

JANE: I think it’s something that can be found absolutely everywhere. In everything and every person, and I’ve never been so aware of the beauty in everyone since I started modeling, actually.

What actually gets better with age?

DIANNE: Confidence in yourself. For me anyway. And I think for a lot of people. I have a good friend who started to draw just because she thought she would like it, and she’s become so talented and travels and does these beautiful little travel books. She doesn’t do it for money or for anything, she does it because she loves to do it. She’s become an artist in her 60s and 70s. I think the trick is: don’t stop learning.

DEBRA: Your appreciation of small things. I mean this. Sometimes I’m outside, and I look up at the sky. Or look at the flowers or something like that. It’s little things that make you appreciative

JANE: Self-confidence. I was super shy and unconfident, but I’m neither of those things anymore. So, I guess time fixes that, or effort. You have to make the effort. I feel much more comfortable in my skin than I did when I was 25 or 30, for sure. Because when you’ve been through so much tough stuff, you can’t possibly give a crap about the minutiae. Once you’ve even been through childbirth. I had yet to take my road test, and I would have been scared normally, and I thought, “Really, I just gave birth, bring it on.”

What things do you do to connect with your inner child?

DIANNE: I was a huge reader when I was a child. And I have to say, I feel that is what was my comfort was as a child. I guess I just love to read! So that’s stayed with me. [Growing up], we were all sort of readers at the table. We weren’t people who had discussions at the table. But my mom was a home person, and she cooked wonderful meals; we loved her meals, and my sister and I always read when we ate. And then I can’t do it all the time; of course, around people I don’t do that, but if I’m with my husband, sometimes I do. I mean now I’m married 60 years, so it’s not like we have that much left to talk about. And so, I feel I can read at the table. I guess that’s the inner child thing I do.

DEBRA: Well, as often as I can, I’ll sit down at my piano. I was a very good pianist. I was a very accomplished musician when I was younger, and I was a music teacher for the whole time that I taught for 26 years, and they never made me teach a social studies class or anything like that. I always did music. When I sit down at the piano and go back, which I’m going to do after we’re done today, it does make me connect because I was a very good musician from a young age. I appreciated the music. I had a very good ear, and that makes me feel that I’ve reconnected with that part of me.

JANE: Dancing in the kitchen. I probably do that every day. I listen to WQXR on the classical station every morning when I do sort of light exercises and, if they play something danceable, there I am.

What is your beauty routine, if you have one?

DIANNE: First of all, I wash with soap. Not with special things or creams; I use soap. I buy a lot of French soaps; that’s my one splurge: really nice soaps, and I have always, all my life since I was small, washed with soap. I wash twice a day, morning and night; I never ever go to sleep with makeup. I put on moisturizer, I put on lipstick, and now I use eyebrow pencil. But that is basically it. Unless I’m working, I might put on a little BB cream; I don’t use foundation. My five minutes in the morning: shower, wash my face, put on some moisturizer and some lipstick, and some eyebrow pencil if I’m going out; if I’m not going out, I even forget that. So that’s my routine!

DEBRA: I have a moisturizer that I put on that has SPF. I like Lancôme products, so I use moisturizer from them, or Laura Geller, and the eyebrow is also Laura Geller. I find that her products really address an older woman. And lipstick, sometimes Lancôme, sometimes Laura Geller; it depends. And it doesn't take me long, a few minutes. I put on the liner, and I'm done.

JANE: Skincare. I'm a bit wild about my skin. I would never sleep in makeup. Micellar water, step one, to remove eye makeup and the 1st layer of makeup, and then some other kind of cleanser, Tatcha brand, or La Roche-Posay, some kind of gentle cleanser.

Did you have a similar beauty routine when you were younger?

DIANNE: Well, I think it was always simple. I would say probably when I started to work, so I was in my 20s… I don’t think I ever wore makeup in college or high school. Well, lipstick, of course lipstick. And then there was some period around my 30s when makeup was kind of really big then then. So yes, I wore some foundation, and we wore eyeshadow. I could never get eyeliner on, so I really never wore eyeliner. But I did wear eyeshadow, and I did have a friend, into her 60s and early 70s, we’d see each other once in a while, and she wore the same turquoise eye makeup. Now, more recently, people wear softer shades than turquoise and greens and stuff. But she always wore that same turquoise eyeshadow we wore in our 20s and 30s. 

DEBRA: I never went over the top. I never did like a lot of makeup, but I found things that worked. And I don't like to spend a lot of time on it. So I keep my routine down to just a few minutes. It takes me longer at night to take things off, to wash my face, to do those kinds of things, than it does to put it on in the morning.

JANE: In my 20s, I didn't know that there was a thing called sun damage. I figured that was for people who went to the beach, you know, and tried to tan, which I didn't. I can't tan. But now that we know, and read articles by dermatologists that say that the one advice they'd give would be to wear sunscreen. So I wear sunscreen. Every single day, year-round. Under makeup, because, you know, the sun's closer to the earth in winter, and the rays are just as bad, and then it comes in the window, and I drive a lot. I never thought of my hands, but I drive a lot, so they actually have aged a wee bit more, much more than my face, actually. A really close friend from Japan brought me those wonderful gloves that people wear there to protect their hands and arms when they're driving, and I leave them in my glove compartment. They go up to the elbow.

What’s important to you in fashion? How would you describe your personal style?

DIANNE: This is a bit embarrassing; I haven’t bought anything really new in years. My fashion is… my closet is my own vintage shop! They’re not expensive clothes, but they’re clothes I’ve had forever. The dress that I wore at the shoot is probably thirty years old and was gifted to me by a neighbor. Some of my stuff from when I was young, I still have but doesn’t fit me, I still have a skirt that I had when I was working, so I think at least 25 years old!

DEBRA: Well, the things that I like are not necessarily the things I can wear, like who doesn't love high heels, they're beautiful! They help with your body; they help shape you, but I can't walk in them. I'll wear my sneakers all the time. I wish that they looked a little more fashionable, but they don't. On the other hand, I could walk for miles in them, so, you know, that's better than crippling myself. It doesn't work. It just doesn't, which is a shame. I've always been short, and there are things that I would like that would be better on a tall person, so I had to modify things. I'll wear petite clothing. I love the jeans that I wear, “not your daughter's jeans.” They’re the best jeans ever. I don’t wear a lot of flowy clothes because I feel like they hide me — I don't think they're really good for a short person. I keep things on the more simple side. If I find a shirt I really like, I'll get 2 of them. I mean, t-shirts and jeans are my favorite things.

JANE: I know someone who's a bit of an influencer, and when people say, ‘oh, you're in fashion,’ he's like, ‘it's not fashion, it's style,’ And I guess I'd agree. If I like it, cool. If I don't, I don't really care that Vogue says it’s fashion. So style I suppose; one's personal expression. I wear genuine vintage for fun every once in a while, which consists of 1970s patterns and things like that. Sleek and chic things that are fitted, since I'm petite. I guess knowing one's shape and one's body and what looks good. I tend not to wear more than 2 colors. I like something extremely simple. And I like statement jewelry, but sometimes the beauty of the simplicity of a perfect black T-shirt or the perfectly fitting sheath dress or something. I kind of hate to ruin that by putting jewelry on. I have been exposed to many people from France as a French major- most of my professors. I really took a lot of inspiration from them back in the 80s. Everybody wore a neck scarf. They do that European thing, but Americans didn't wear scarves as much, except cold-weather scarves, so I picked that up. Like a silk scarf, thrown over one shoulder.

What’s your favorite thing about life?

DIANNE: How varied life can be. How life enables you to move past difficult moments and sad moments. And to become an interested and I hope somewhat interesting person. The world has something for everybody. And you know, vote in the right way, please.

DEBRA: My family. It’s the people. My children, who I’m wild about, and I love my husband, he’s a good guy, and he’s having some health issues this summer, so, it hasn’t been easy, but I hope he’ll be okay.

JANE: Two things, either the joys from being solitary, looking out at a tree; that’s a simple but immense joy. Trees and leaves. Things like that. Or at the opposite end, meeting people or being with people, even what you might call a micro encounter with a stranger over a counter, that kind of thing. People are very kind.

What are your dreams? Or if you had some that came to fruition in your life, what were they?

DIANNE: Well, I always wanted to travel. I went to Europe and spent a year abroad in my early 20s. So, in that sense, for the most part, my dreams have been fulfilled. The place I’ve always wanted to go to is Bhutan, and I haven’t gotten there, and I might be too old for that, but otherwise, my dreams are to have my grandchildren safe, happy, and fulfilled. That’s my current dream. My dream of traveling and seeing and doing interesting things and having friends all over the world, that I’ve done. I want the rest of my family and others to be safe, happy, and fulfilled. And I found the love of my life. He’s a little over 90, he has some more health issues, doesn’t get out as much, is a little quieter, doesn’t come to the city as often as me. But I got him a commercial job! He and I, together,just did a music video for an Irish band! They wanted an older couple to do this song [and] we filmed all day in our house, in the subway, in the park. I thought it was such fun; we had such a good time [the crew] was very nice, and I was happy for him; he got to see a little bit of my work.

DEBRA: Oh, even now, to get discovered.

JANE: When I was young, I wanted to be multilingual; I thought it was the coolest thing to be able to understand and speak another language, and I’ve studied many. French, Portuguese, Spanish, German, Russian; there’s a thrill because every time you learn a new language, there are a few many more million people you could potentially communicate with. I’ve gotten to travel to other countries; there are still more I’d like to do, but that’s a joy. One dream is to own a home, but I can’t afford it; I’ll have to keep buying lottery tickets for that one! A dream that I could still do is an archaeological dig. When I was young, I would’ve loved to go to Egypt, although I don’t know, with the heat and all the rest. Yes, I troll the sites, of course, for the Council of British Archaeology. I’m a member of the AIA, the Archaeological Institute of America, and I take classes at Oxford online on Roman Archaeology, Roman Britain, things like that; prehistoric Britain; that’s a dream, yes.